California Prop 8: Early Polls show likely to pass
November 5, 2008 9:57 am Other Divorce News
California Proposition 8 on early polls on Tuesday night shows California voters are in favor of overturning same-sex marriage which would impact gay people and how they live their lives in California and around America. In California at 9pm voters were 54.5 percent at passing Prop 8, and 45.5 percent against Prop 8.
As Barack Obama becomes the 44th President of the United States and becomes the first black President in America we hope that the American people will see that it should be equality everywhere, black, white, gay or straight, every American should be able to live as equals and have the same rights as one another.
If Prop 8 was approved it would be a victory for many religious conservatives who have wanted to pan gay marriages, it would be extremely upsetting for the American people who have been involved in the $70 million campaign to allow gay marriages.
Come on America, this is time for change, time for equality, love, marriage should it matter what sex you are? Please share your views on this subject.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Change? Nope. You have a nation full of bigots, racists, and all kinds of awful people. I cried tears of JOY when Obama won… But I cant understand how BLACKS of all people… are by a large margin, the most prejudice against gay marriage. Its awful. Everyone is just doing what their buddies tell them to do. Really, I could go on and on about why the passing of Prop 8 is bad news… but id go blue in the face. I Shouldnt even have to explain myself… this is been LARGELY a battle of religion, the separation of church and state is FORGOTTEN.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:12 am
One would like to think that this is, indeed, a time of great change. And on some fronts, it truly is! At the same time, the passage of Proposition 8 in California shows that, while we are making progress, America is apparently not prepared to offer BASIC CIVIL RIGHTS to all its citizens quite yet.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Its not about equality, its about definition.
Marriage isn’t something that the United States came up with, so its not something the United States should be able to change.
Marriage is a Biblical principle.
If they want to change their definition of a legally binding relationship, then they should feel free.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:14 am
I voted No on Prop 8 and I’m very disappointed to see that Yes is leading. I don’t think I’ll be able to sleep tonight… If Prop 8 passes, I’ll be wearing black from head to toe to mourn the death of equality (doesn’t really make a statement, but it’s better than nothing).
November 5th, 2008 at 10:18 am
If this proposition passes it will be a sorry mistake sealed in the history of California. It is not the end of the movement for equality, however.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Voting yes on proposition 8 is a good move for California and the rest of the United States. If proposition 8 were to fail, we would have to change how to educate children on how they came into the world. We would have to change the laws on divorce to exclude adultery and behavior as grounds for divorce. We would have to change the teachings of the boy scouts of America and our religious freedom. We would have to change the matrimonial acts.
How do you explain to children that some have 2 moms or 2 dads?
November 5th, 2008 at 10:37 am
if my child was gay i would abandon them. shameless gay people
November 5th, 2008 at 10:48 am
yes, the seperation of church and state is forgotten but not the way you are (referring to the comment below)
let us remember where the ceremony of marriage comes from. marriage is a religion thing… a ritual we practice that was initially established by God… so the states should stay out of religion and let us continue our practices with out having to impose their secular beliefs!! YES on prop 8 and the rest of you figure out your own ways of “sealing the deal” between you and your partner and let us continue with our own definition of marriage. it’s not about hate but rather staying on your side of the fence.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Prop 8 is terrible and discriminating. Gays do not harm children or anyone else. As far as the bible and religion goes, it is supposed to be separation of church and state. Churches would not be forced to marry two people that they did not want, it is their property, they can do what they want. Prop 8 is so ridiculous and prejudice, I can’t even believe such a thing is even being voted on. So when do I get to vote on if straight people can marry or not?
November 5th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Anon Says: Its not about equality, its about definition.
It’s not about equality? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
I can’t believe the majority of such a liberal state has voted for a ban on same-sex marriage. Many “yes” voters say they support granting all the rights to same-sex couples that “traditional” married couples enjoy. Why not marriage? Yes, if gays had all the same rights as married heterosexuals except for marriage, “marriage” would be simply a title, a label. Do homosexuals not deserve the same title for their partnerships as heterosexuals do?
I can see change coming, and I believe that California will eliminate the ban on gay marriage in the (hopefully) near future.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Dan, did you vote “yes” on Prop 8 because you believe it would just be too difficult to teach children about the existence of homosexuality? Gay people do exist, you can’t just ignore it.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:52 am
yes, the separation of church and state is forgotten but not the way you are portraying it(referring to the first comment)
let us remember where the ceremony of marriage comes from. marriage is a religion thing… a ritual we practice that was initially established by God… so the states should stay out of religion and let us continue our practices with out having to impose their secular beliefs!! YES on prop 8 and the rest of you figure out your own ways of “sealing the deal” between you and your partner and let us continue with our own definition of marriage. it’s not about hate but rather staying on your side of the fence.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Dan: homosexuality exists. It’s not going to help to ignore it.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Dan: homosexuality exists. It’s not going to help to ignore its existence.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:06 am
This is an abomination for the American people. How can we act like we are so progressive by electing a black president and then vote against a proposition that stands for the rights of a certain lifestyle.. do you all really think gay marriage should be unconstitutional? A country that prides itself on life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.. who are we to deny a certain group of people their rights to express love; judgement is the worst of all sins and those who approve this proposition are in violation of their moral convictions. Gay marriage does not violate the rights of those already married and it does not affect the lives of those not involved. America obviously has a long way to go before it can truly call itself a nation that is free from discrimination!
November 5th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
the worst of all sins??? according to who because if we are talking about the God of the Bible the worst of all sins… an abomination to him would be the sin of homosexuality…. so what do you mean by sin?
November 5th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Marriage is not a “biblical principle”, it’s a contract and always has been. Hell, there are still countries where women’s hands in marriage are traded for land or money, just the way it was always done until very recently.
It truly makes me sad to live in California and see this proposition pass, because it means we have seriously failed in educating our citizens (among other things). The sheer number of people who blindly believed the “yes on 8″ campaign ads saying all kinds of crap from “they’ll teach homosexuality in our schools!” to “your taxes will be affected!” just makes me want to cry, because it means a majority of our voters were either too stupid, too ignorant, or too bigoted to go find out the truth themselves before voting.
And let’s not get into all the hate crimes that occurred while people were protesting here… I saw people get beat up, their property destroyed, police officers ticketing anyone holding a “no on 8″ banner, the list goes on.
And people try to tell me it’s about “sanctity of marriage”? My ass. It’s all about hatred and ignorance, and to say it’s anything more is putting, well, lipstick on a f’kn ugly pig.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
What’s next, separate water fountains and entrances to restaurants for gay people?
November 5th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
marriage is a biblical principle? one might want to consider the concept that their religion is not the only religion and the world does not revolve around just them. the concept of marriage is universal even among other religions. marriage is not just recognized by your god. it is recognized by everyone. in passing prop 8 in a country consisting of so many cultures and ethnicities is like a slap in the face and favoring one side over the other. this proposition is just plain selfish and wrong.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
I have to say I am in favor of Prop 8. I am not a bigot or close minded. I think any two people should be able to have a civil union with all the rights and responsiblities that come along with it. Defining “marriage” as between a man and woman just protects religions from having to recognize those unions if it goes against their beliefs. And FYI, I am thrilled that a man of color was elected to be president, but that is not WHY people should have voted for him!
November 5th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Homosexualtiy is a condition. Itis not genetic. It is not hereditary. I was completely on the other side of the fence years ago. I have a psychologist in SoCal (PhD from Stanford). I did my undergrad at Cal. I was taught by professors that homosexuality was not treatable and was was determined before birth. This was before all of the studies that have proved otherwise. I started my practtice and started to get gay men that wanted counseling, and I started to discover that in each individual there is a specific cause for homosexuality. In speaking with my colleagues, more and more of us are coming to the same conclusion. Homosexuality is a condition, and it is treatable. I would never have believed it if I had not experienced it. I have since treated over 3 dozen gay men, and over half of them are in heterosexual relationships. They are so much happier than they were before. Granted, it took a lot of work and time for most of them. It’s tough at times, because society tells them that this is who you are and you need to accept it. You can’t change. I just can’t put into words how much happier they are now that they have confronted themselves and moved on.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Sorry folks, I didn’t mean to post that message 3 times. There was a delay on its appearance on the page so I posted it a few times. =D
November 5th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
“marriage” is not solely from biblical context. It’s a contract that is primarily focused on transfer of property and lineage. The Jews and Christians aren’t the first people to invent “marriage.” Further, I’d like to see ONE reference ANYWHERE where Jesus Christ talked about homosexuality as a sin. It’s nowhere in any of the gospels. It’s a relatively recent interpretation in the history of the church. I take exception to the anti-gay movement being a moral, or even remotely “Christian” stance.
Frankly, this is fear and prejudice perverted and wrapped in the package of “protecting our children.” How are fear and prejudice protection for our children? How does perpetuating hate prepare them to be productive and happy members of society?
November 5th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
And to Dan’s points:
“we would have to change how to educate children on how they came into the world.”
- How does gay marriage change the process of birth? Do children ONLY come from heterosexual marriage? I know plenty of children who were born out of wedlock or through scientific methods. Does gay marriage change this somehow? I fail to understand your assertion.
“We would have to change the laws on divorce to exclude adultery and behavior as grounds for divorce.”
- California is already a “no fault” state. Adultery hasn’t been a cause for divorce in California for a long time. And how on EARTH do you figure that same-sex marriage means a whole new definition of monogamy? Again, I am not following your logic.
“We would have to change the teachings of the boy scouts of America and our religious freedom.”
- How does marriage impact current religious freedoms or Boy Scouts – or ANY private organization for that matter? Since when is any church obligated to marry couples who aren’t members of their congregation? Again, I believe this to be mistaken information.
“We would have to change the matrimonial acts.”
- What acts?
“How do you explain to children that some have 2 moms or 2 dads?”
- How do you currently explain other non-traditional families? What about children with only a mother or a father? What about children being raised by adoptive parents (or parent)? Or being raised by relatives who aren’t their parents? Children are already being raised by same-sex couples. This isn’t new. How will granting the legal right to marry change that?
I would like to see some actual instances and back-up to the claims of the would-be impacts same-sex marriage would have. Because it otherwise sounds like un-substantiated fear tactics.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:53 am
I know this is an emotional issue but today is a very sad day for the United States. The defined rights of marriage include: Spousal immunity in court trials, Inheritance Rights, Pension benefits, Wrongful Death claims, tax benefits, etc. California just removed those rights from a group of people. Marriage “by the state of California” should not exclude any human who wants these rights. Maybe we need a new word for in the constitution and for these rights and leave the word marriage to the church.
November 6th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Allison, same-sex couples have all of the sames rights in California already, including what you listed above.
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:06 am
Greg, that’s just not true. Most simply (and not exclusively), civil unions aren’t recognized on the Federal level, meaning they are not offered Federal protections. It really is a case of the spurious but formerly popular “separate but equal” argument for segregation.
More importantly, why does it matter to you? How does extending the right to marry to homosexuals affect you, even if homosexuality is a condition, as you say? What about the other half of those 3 dozen men you’ve treated? Why should they not be allowed to marry in a way that seems right to them and does not cost you a thing?
Also, I’d like you to point me to these studies you mention (I mean that) and I’d like you to tell me where on earth in the Iowa trailer park in which I was raised, where in my Catholic upbringing, precisely where and when between Matthew Shepard and Proposition 8, society told me that “this is who I am and I need to accept it.” I’ll give you 12 weeks of soulful introspection under your diligent guidance, provided you eat the bill if I’m still happily with my boyfriend at the end of it all. Deal?